Tony Rodd – Unusual Wines

The Transcript:

Welcome to Get Shirty, the podcast where we ask our guests about the things in life that just never failed to irritate and get them all shirty. The chat focuses on home, work and going out, but could go anywhere. And it’s not all German gloom as each guest gets a major measure shirt which they design, so we talk about that too. Funny that, us being tailors.
[Music]
It’s podcast time once again, so welcome to episode five, episode five, can you believe it? Of the GitShirti podcast where we chat with Top Chef and MasterChef Alumni Tony Rodd. Tony came into the public eye as a contestant on MasterChef where he was a finalist in 2015. Since then Tony has continued to be a chef and is a passionate advocate of the hospitality trade. We recorded the podcast in November in 2023 and we drank a little wine too. So here we are, one guest, two mics, three tailors and a host of irritations. Let’s get shirted.
[Music]
Welcome to the GitShirti podcast. It’s lovely to have you here. How are you? Thank you very much.
Yeah, it’s very good to be here. I’m very well, thank you. Good, good. We’ve had a chat before
starting recording the podcast and we’ve sorted out your shirt. Yes indeed. Something very stylish,
I think. What were your choices? What have you gone for? I’ve gone for a blue striped
body with a white collar and double cuffs. I tend to wear a lot of 1920s to 1940s suits and I’ve
just recently purchased a very nice collarbar. So I think it should work with that, I hope.
I think very nice as well. Especially I think the style that you’ve gone for has got that
really nice look where it will work with a sort of more contemporary style and something that’s
a bit more vintage too. Absolutely. Can blur the lines a little bit. Yeah, it’s good. That’s very much how
I live my life. Blurring the lines. Blurring the lines will not be the wine that you very kindly
brought along today. Thank you very much. I didn’t even look to see what it was I was drinking
other than I went. All that was nice. It’s tasty. I think this is one of the things that my wife and I
focus on a lot which is drinking and tasting good wines. Yeah. But finding wines that are maybe a bit
more unusual and good both for drinking a high ball set for the restaurant. This is just a nice Kiran
which is essentially a cote de rone blend, Grinache Cere et Mourvedra and it’s by our really good friends
at Boutin et Wain. So we love these guys and like they’re wine. Excellent. It’s very nice. I can
highly recommend and I will listen back to this and write all of that down and then repeat it
any given time so I sound like I know what I’m talking about. Absolutely. Also so I can get it again.
That’s very nice. Very nice. So, shirt’s done. Wine is done. Excellent. So the other thing that we’re
here to talk about today is just those little things in life that get under our skin. Hence the
podcast being called Get Shirti. And over here I realise that you basically must have a list of
guests that are all miserable. Well, yeah I’ll be back. Sure, there is that. Let’s talk about that.
Let’s ask it. Yeah exactly. But we didn’t try and put a positive spin on it where we can.
And in fact we’ve had a couple of people sit there and go actually there’s nothing really about that.
They get some of the nerves. I’m going to have to start making things up. But yeah so it is the lighter
hole. Absolutely. Well, I scratch a few of these. Yeah, I’ve got my nose now. Well, yeah let’s go for it.
So the way we look at it is work, home and play. Yes. Or the Mars Bar view of work, rest and play.
And we really start with work. So I mean you obviously run your own business. You’re very successful
in what you do. Is there anything at all about it that I mean in fact doesn’t even have to be
current work and from the past. I’ll be honest with you when we opened the restaurant five years ago
Becky and I asked ourselves why have we opened a restaurant because we hate people. And I think the
reality is is we don’t hate them. And anyone that frequents our restaurant, we love you. Thanks for
coming. And if you haven’t been then please do come because we’re really nice in real life. But
there are so many things that wind us up at the restaurant. And of course you spend so many hours
there as a as a chef or as a restaurant that the little things wind you up. And funnily enough
before we started recording I said a lot of people don’t understand how restaurants work. So I
can’t blame them when they turn up and expect us to be able to cook them food without onions in.
And they don’t realize that I’ve been there from seven o’clock in the morning, chopping and
sweating down onions. Yeah, put them in everything that we’ve cooked. So I can kind of forgive people
with a lot of this. But there are things that get under my skin and I think one of them that
definitely comes to mind is when people come in and they say I’m dairy free. And we’ll always ask
everyone when they sit down is there anything you can’t eat because we feed us. That’s what we do.
We want to make sure that you can eat. And we also want to make sure that you don’t go home either
dead or with a really bad belly. And so the first thing we ask is are there any dietary
requirements? Anything you can’t eat. And someone will say to us well I’m dairy free. We’ll say okay,
no problem. And most of our food can be done dairy free. But inevitably there’s one or two
dishes that we just can’t do without cream or butter. And they want that dish. And then they’ll tell us
afterwards oh it’s all right. I’ll have that anyway. It’s okay if I have a bit of dairy.
And for me it’s that don’t tell me you can’t have dairy and then order something with dairy and
say it’s going to be all right because to a certain extent we’ve got a duty of care to ask you.
But just keep it to yourself if you’re not going to eat it. Yeah. Why shouldn’t drink wine? Yeah.
But I don’t ever turn up somewhere and say I can’t drink wine. I’ll have a glass of the coat to
run please. I just keep that to myself and just people with a glass of wine because yeah I know
they’re going to look at me and go what you’re doing. Yeah so it’s that sort of it’s almost like
showing off or something isn’t it like oh I can’t do that. But I’m going to anyway. Yeah.
It’s really strange. I think dietary requirements in allergens and intolerances
are something that are more prevalent now than may have been in the past. Yeah. I think a lot of that
is processed foods and the way certainly in this country more than in continental Europe as an
example we treat food and we eat and I think we’re seeing more allergens and intolerances
than more than ever over the last couple of years. But I think there’s also a lack of understanding
and there are a lot of people that say well I’m not eating gluten at the moment and you say well
why are you eating gluten? Well I’m on this diet. Gluten isn’t going to in any way affect your diet
apart from probably not give you bits that you need in it. Yeah. And unless you have an intolerance to
it or an allergy to it you shouldn’t cut it out for the sake of it. Yeah. And a lot of the time people
say well I can’t eat gluten so I’m not having potatoes. You know what potatoes aren’t gluten potatoes
carbs. So again I think there is an element of that people just not understanding it and making it
up but I think there is twisting to suit the and self-diagnosing as well. Oh yeah I shouldn’t eat
dairy. Well why is that? Well I went out last night and I came home and had an awful, awful
belly. What did you do last night? Well I had a really nice meal and then I had 20 points again.
So yeah. Yeah. Suspect it’s not the meal. So maybe the Guinness. Yeah if you are going to go out for dinner
and you are going to eat whatever you want to anyway don’t tell people that you can’t eat certain
things because the chefs are going to be annoyed. Yeah. Well you say if there is always that thing
especially in the world where we live now where reviews are king and everything else if
few have been told I can’t eat this but I’m going to eat it anyway. Ultimately they are going to
turn around and go well I eat it there and this is the reason they are not going to go oh well it was
my own fault. Yeah. People don’t really like to take the blame. No never. But it’s a funny one isn’t it?
But I can forgive these people because in the day I eat really tasty food but yeah that’s true.
So when you are putting together a menu do you have that sort of thought in your head that I need
to make this as flexible as possible so I can take those things out if I need to or yes and no.
So we actually approach it in a slightly different way. We try and design a menu that doesn’t have
the ingredient in it in the first place. So my wife Becky is gluten intolerant. So our entire menu
is gluten free. We don’t tell anyone that because they don’t need to know it but if someone comes in
and says well I’m gluten free so can you tell me what I can eat? We’re really happy to then give them
the menu and say you can eat everything and a lot of our guests that come in who have specific
dietary requirements they’ll often say to us they feel really happy about eating with us because
they know that they can eat with confidence and be they don’t get treated as a second rate
diner and as a partner of someone who gets treated like that a lot is nothing worse than going to
a restaurant or a pub and you’ll often get told where you can have the steak but you can’t really
have the chips with it because they’re cooked in a fryer with other things that have got gluten and
we can’t cook you that we can’t cook you that and if you do want a dessert we can only give you
sorbet and you think well what was the point of us coming out for dinner is just you know it’s a waste
of time so we try and approach our menu design every month with a I want to make sure as many people
can eat this as they can so if I can substitute something for dairy be it margarine instead of butter
or a dairy free milk or cream in in place of standard dairy based cream and milk then we will unless
of course it really is needed in the dish to make the dish amazing and sometimes that’s the case
you know without that ingredient it’s just halves only butter will do exactly that butter makes everything
better is the real truth of it yeah so we try and approach it that way and it also protects our
guests because if you are then putting out sometimes for us 80 covers 80 plates of food or 80 guests
essentially in the evening and one of them has to have something removed from the dish
it’s a really easy mistake to send the wrong plate of food to that time so for us we don’t have
that issue because everyone’s eating the same thing on the table so we try and approach it that way
because for us we want it to be accessible we want everyone just to be able to come in and enjoy
their meal and feel like their special guests which essentially they are yeah that’s a really good way
of sort of protecting or not even protecting but sort of future-proofing yourself you know it’s
nice I’m not sure if many places take that sort of care not really a sort of eye roll and a tough
yeah it can be and I think that’s what I guess like that they don’t get treated like that it’s just
you’re just someone else that’s coming into it in our restaurant and we want you to have as
nice a time as everyone else and again it’s a conversation that I was having with Sam earlier
which was if we do go to a restaurant we’ll always tell them in advance becky can’t eat glutin
so they know well in advance and if they were to contact us and say we just can’t accommodate
that we’ll go great I probably thank you for letting us know we’ll find somewhere else but it’s when
diners do turn up and it’s you know on the night on a really busy Saturday night and say I like
can’t eat onions yeah and we think well it’s too late now because I have been preparing this
sometimes dishes are three or four days in in the making yeah and if the onions the first thing
that goes in yeah there’s not a lot we can do about that yeah they really can’t reverse engineer
that one it’s bizarre so I would always say if you are going to a restaurant and there is
something you desperately can’t eat tell them in advance and they love you for it because they can
basically prepare it or tell you that I’m really sorry it’s just not something we can do yeah and I
have to say actually from a diner’s point of view it’s really nice to turn up somewhere as we did
up the road up at Tallah to turn up somewhere and and for as you walk in goes don’t worry we know
you can’t eat this yeah so we’ve prepared this and this and we’ve taken this out of that
bit and it sort of actually starts the experience off in a way that you feel looked after straight away
confident you can have a good time yeah yeah so know yourself always tell the restaurant absolutely
why don’t you I don’t think there’s anything I can’t eat or tell you don’t like eating
boiled eggs oh yeah boiled eggs that’s good point to you yeah they are
yeah I really don’t like boiled eggs like fried egg it’s all right scrambled eggs are all right but
yeah cold boiled eggs I don’t know a hard boiled egg I don’t know anybody can I mean I love a
boiled egg I mean it’s a little and I love that and I love that but we we have these things and so
many of our guests do and it makes me laugh because you do sometimes get these strange strange requests
where it’s like I can’t have egg and you go oh you were allergic to egg and I go oh no no I’m fine
with egg if it’s you know in a cake or I’m fine with egg if it’s made into something but if it’s
actually egg and you go right fine okay it’s just an egg thing just a boiled egg I don’t know why is
I think actually yeah some of it I could trace back to boiled eggs when I was a kid where the
yolk could pop out and it was all grey and yeah I think a lot of us have got food dislikes that are
from yeah when we were kids yeah and yeah my mum was an amazing cook but there were certain things
growing up that I didn’t like and your taste buds do change naturally yeah then when you get to
adulthood you say well actually I don’t really like that and it’s until you eat again as an adult
realize it’s not that bad that you can actually I’m an idiot big roots lovely yeah and I think a lot
of people that we talk to you go why don’t you eat this and say oh my mum used to make it for me
when I was younger and he said well I’m not your mum yeah and I know you say don’t like mushrooms
I’m going to give you a my tacky mushroom or a king oyster mushroom because the reason you don’t
like mushrooms a guarantee I’m looking at Sam right now because of the texture they make you sick
they make you sick I was at an altitude okay so now there yeah but often it with people like I don’t
about mushrooms why not it’s a texture and you go okay they’re slimy oh they’re slimy yeah and then
we give them a my tacky mushroom it’s been barbecued and brushed with a real lovely soy glaze
and that’s not in any way slimy and that’s got an amazing texture taste of chicken essential
all we give them a king oyster mushroom which is scored and pan-seed in garlic and rosemary
and it’s got a meaty texture and it takes on a really lovely garlic and herb flavour and they will
go well actually all of a sudden I like mushrooms and you realize that it is a a regression to
jolt and steak when they had these slimy mushrooms and that’s why they don’t eat mushrooms but we’ve
won so many people over over the years with food that we’ve just said just try if you don’t like it
I’ll cook you something else but I think people like this does sound good does it is it true
that you have to eat something six times first thing my now-wife asked when we first
ate it was are you sure you’re not gay I tried it six times and definitely still not it’s still
old I definitely but I’m trying to be said I’ve never heard that before and I don’t know whether
that’s true I mean I’d be surprised I think we like something we like it every year we make my
mum eat an olive she can’t stand olives okay and she does a it might actually go but the kids like
to make her eat an olive that’s the sort of Christmas tradition it’s time for granny to eat the
olive this is going to be a really triggering podcast for many people not just the noise that you keep on
making yeah but setting on people around the garden yeah when you when we finish recording you’ve
got to go on to YouTube and quickly have a look to see if you can find the goal that wretches
whenever she hears anyone making that noise it’s hilarious I’m really sorry for her because her partner
is the cruelest man I’ve ever seen in my life because he just does it all the time and then she
wretches all right but yeah so yeah so yeah mum I would say that’s happened over six or seven times
now she still doesn’t like olives perhaps it’s in quick succession I don’t know we’ll try again this year
there are some flavors that this is yes some flavors that kids don’t like because it’s part of their
makeup because kids shouldn’t eat things that are poisonous to them and that might kill them
all right and olives are one of those things that have that slightly acrid taste that very bitter
flavor and a lot of things that are poisonous in in nature taste the same so kids shouldn’t like
the taste of olives and some people just don’t grow out of that right but I’m there for them
always absolutely baffled when we get kids that come into the restaurant and we have one young
I actually know whether it’s a boy or girl because they always come for lunch and I never see them
because my kitchen is in a different place but their parents always ask us just to do them playing
pasta with olive oil and olives in it they’re dairy-free so I know they can’t have dairy and that’s
whether it have a sauce on it but that’s what they like and I’m always baffled that this kid loves olives
right and there are certain things that really surprise me when you go kids are asking for that
and when we get really bougie kids that come into the restaurant and they say
do you have a do steak tartar I love steak tartar how do you I mate okay great this is wonderful
and oh rabbit oh I mean a bit of world rabbit that’s a wonderful thing and you think your eight
years old you shouldn’t be eating these things but I’m glad that you do and I love kids that just
want to eat food I’m minding in the view on my wife’s side really big foodies and we’ll try
anything that they give an angently enjoy it and my niece and nephew are my sisters side and they
say if you listen to this and I’m really sorry but it’s true are a bit more fussy and I’m like
oh your uncle’s a bloody chef so yeah please just enjoy food I’ll should introduce you my
middle child who she will likes olives to the point where she’ll drink the briny yeah oh yeah
I mean I’m beloved martini with that in and I do a quick tangent from work quickly because we’re
on the kind of subject of people that don’t like food yeah and it makes sense because one of the
things I’ve written about that get under my skin or that I generally don’t like is Andrew Tate
good and there is a long reason right a long list of reasons in fact why don’t I like Andrew Tate
but Andrew Tate this week came out and wrote and I I’m going to quote this foods awful and eating
socks a hate eating a hate feeling full imagine how stupid you have to be to find find food entertaining
literally embarrassing if you’re a man who enjoys food or cooking at any capacity then you’re
a cuck desperate to validate a non-existent masculinity and you think oh so that’s a that’s a
take isn’t it um Andrew Tate doesn’t like eating and thinks if you like eating you’re a femenop
and yeah it’s a really weird I mean there is a lot to unpick in that yeah really
essentially especially a man that walks around trying to flex his muscles you know most of the people
that I know that are muscular are very much you know I eat a lot of protein yeah and yeah food is
his life yeah but I mean I can’t say I particularly liked him before I read that statement well
is and he’s sort of not winning you over with that statement no he’s definitely not um but yeah
just the idea apparently if you eat and enjoy food you’re a femenop and uh your opinions aren’t really
valid and food is for me all about it’s a hospitality thing whether or not it’s in a restaurant setting
or a home food for me was always growing up about being with friends and family eating, drinking,
having conversation oh that’s what I love doing and if you can do that while in actually enjoying
the thing that you’re putting in your go at the same time why not um but yeah it’s a really strange take
well look so there’s work and and interesting characters absolutely yeah so he would be an onion
person would my god can you imagine yeah yeah he would be that I worry he just comes out I don’t eat
food yeah smash the place up and then leave it out yeah so he do so look so there’s some
annoyances there well what about from the home point of view do you have any at home that’s uh I think
you can give you over the edge yeah there’s there’s a couple of things I think the first one for me is
is the price of gluten free products so I mentioned the fact my my wife kind of gluten and uh and we’re
not home often enough yeah um but when we are home all we do is we eat and drink because um we hate
and you take that much uh but essentially you know that’s what our life revolves around we love food
we love drinking we love music um so we’ll spend our Sundays which is our day off um catching up on
paperwork and and basically refueling for the wick um and we’ll do a uh an online supermarket order
and I’ll order a loaf of bread for myself and it will cost me £1.39 checks my notes yeah don’t
want to to misslead anybody here about the loaf of of hovis um and we’re talking about an 800 gram
sliced white bread you know nothing fancy I know I’m a chef but nothing goes better with bacon and
in the morning than sliced white bread yeah um and then I’ll order a becky at a loaf of gluten
free bread that’s half the size for 100 grams and costs three pounds seven to you and I don’t know why
and it’s the same for anything that’s gluten free it’s double the price for half the size um
and it just feels like there’s people out there trying to make money from individuals that can’t
eat whatever anyone else wants to eat um yeah and that just absolutely destroys me
yeah it’s not good is it is there’s the equivalent in the tailoring world or what people expect
to be in the tailoring world is I’m getting married right so yes suddenly you add an extra zero
onto the end which is I think is what tends to be the misconception of but I think the wedding
world can be a little bit like that I’ve got nothing here and it was very much like that with a lot
of things yeah okay flowers oh great yeah no problem oh you’d want a few wedding
how to give you another quote now yeah why is it different um we did a lot of it ourselves
we hosted it at the restaurant yeah um we could afford ourselves you know we we had friends that
make cakes so we’re fortunate in the industry on your wedding though you actually cooked well I so
pre pre pre pre yeah I had a chef friend that was meant to cook for us but sadly that fell
through right at the last minute so we prepped everything in the kitchen during the week so I cooked
my own wedding meal and then on the day my amazing team of chefs that work with us at the restaurant
said we’ve got it and they like I mean and come for us they were at the evening party anyway
they just were at the evening party smelling a food which was to be fair what’s not to like
thanks back to Andrew Tate yeah um but it was amazing at how many things you ask for a quote on
and as soon as they find out it is for a wedding it price changes and I think well what’s
what’s different about imagine if you were having a gluten three way there can you imagine ten times
the price ten times of course but yeah it’s bonkers so that that frustrates me um but you know it is
I get it is when it is it’s niches ingredients that maybe do cost a little bit more
but do you think it is the niche more than the I think there are definitely businesses that um
that make money knowing that people haven’t got a choice yeah they have to have a certain thing
and the only way they get that is if they pay over the ice so I think there is a little bit of that
I think niche is one of the things and obviously supermarkets are spying in this stock that may not sell
but you’d think over all these years at supermarkets know how much they need to buy
and therefore they’ve got a shelf life and they can they can deal with that yeah I just think that
even they know that they you know people haven’t got a choice they’ve got to buy these things so that
frustrates me um and I think the other thing that frustrates me at home is is TV shows about food
right and that’s not fair to say about all of them um because I think there is something
that are great yeah but I think the hospitality industry has got a really bad reputation
and I think we’ve worked really hard as an industry to try and prove that over the years and
there are a lot of younger restaurants and chefs who have worked hard to make their restaurants and
their kitchens really nice places to work at the accommodating places sure and pay well and you know
don’t beat people into submission in the in the in the team um but then you watch things like um
I’m trying to remember what it’s called boiling point right and uh and you see uh Gordon Ramsey
on Telly and Gordon Ramsey is an amazing chef and a very nice person yeah but they have these on
our TV personas and to represent representations of restaurants on yeah things like boiling point
that you just think it’s not realistic it’s not right and it just makes us look awful
right now the industry is in a really tough place where people don’t want to work within restaurants
and we’re under a lot of pressure financially um and you think it’s the last thing we need is
is that representation on TV where um so TV programs
fictional TV programs and how they represent yeah that rather than like a cooking show yeah I think
I mean I mean I’ve got to be good about cooking shows because without them I wouldn’t be here now
um but yeah and and there are some really good shows the bear that came out on um Disney
I haven’t watched that yeah that’s come out really good or is it good yeah it’s really good and I
think for all of us in the industry we watch that and although it is anxiety inducing for a lot of us
um what’s great about it is is a real portrayal of what happens in a restaurant on any one day
because there are points of it where you just think well they’re just chopping onions you know it’s
not that exciting but there are also parts of the show where it is stressful and height you know
high tension and whatever else and that’s great but with other shows where it’s just screaming shouting
people dying um people doing drugs and drinking and uh blowing themselves and chopping fingers off
and yeah well yeah it’s just not realistic about what the industry is like anymore maybe one
one is on a time but not anymore there’s not too many programs about talent so we’re okay but I can
understand from from your point of view how is for you as well being having been the other side of it
yeah I think I mean I I’m in a weird situation because I came into the industry very late in life
right so you’re so young and useful oh bless you it’s really kind
that’s it that’s his back off yeah so I had believed we’d just pop them back then um it’s about no I
I didn’t enter the industry till I was in my mid to late 30s right and had worked in other businesses
so when we opened the restaurant I knew of the reputation of the industry and I said to my wife
at the time we want to open this restaurant but let’s run it as a business in any other sense
so we will treat people with respect we’ll treat kindly we’ll pay them appropriately and we’ll
try and run it so it’s a successful business first before most and then a really successful
restaurant um as it’s secondary thing and I’d seen it from both sides in terms of seeing it from
the TV side of things um and I understand that TV is entertainment so you’ve kind of got to put a
bit of drama in there as well and in fact when we’ve hosted uh both Celebrity MasterChef and Robyn
Rommesh um we got told by the production team hey give us a bit of drama right it’s just that
I’m not going to scream and shout at people yeah I’m not going to send things back if it doesn’t
need to be sent back you know I’m not going to make it drama for the sake of it being drama because
it’s not who I am and I want to represent myself well as well as the restaurant but um but then
you also do get these points where you see things that are over the top drama and you just go
it’s entertaining but yeah you’re cringe when you watch it but uh I’ve also worked with chefs both
in other venues where I’ve seen the buddy I’ve seen there right people putting spoons in fryers
and then putting spoons in pots that someone picks up said spoon and it’s you know 200 degrees
and the person picks up buns themselves or pots and pans being thrown across the kitchen at chef’s
heads because they’ve done something wrong wow when you think you’re not getting the best out of that
person when you do that and uh stop throwing things at Sam’s yeah cutting shares definitely
stop throwing them out of this across the the cutting floor oh well things are going to change round
here Sam looks so happy um but likewise you know we’ve had chefs sort of come to work with us
and on their trial shift or you know when they’re coming in to spend a week with us they’re screaming
and shouting and swearing and you go right okay I’m gonna put you to one side and we’re gonna have
a little conversation because that’s not how things are done with us you treat everybody with respect
you know nobody is beneath you and you get better from the team and I think what’s good is with us
most of my team have been with me for years um you know certainly we lost uh jaden recently
he didn’t die uh he just went to a hands-to-damn well um but jaden uh had been with us since pretty much
the star as is rob and uh and George in the kitchen um and demi-tree um front house we’ve got a number
of people who have been with us again you know five years um and a lot of restaurants that turn
over six months and it is a churn and I think again it’s you treat people with respect you give them
a license to be creative and to have a good time um and people will stay with you and that means
that then you’ve got consistency and equality of what you do yeah uh which is great um you don’t
spend as much money on recruiting yeah training um so it’s kind of it works if you can do it but
I think the industry unfortunately has a bad reputation and some of the tv shows don’t really
don’t have justice yeah you know it so it’s nice to see programs like the bear coming through which
you’re yeah a bit more realistic perhaps a little bit more more of that absolutely and you know it’s
it’s it’s stressful watching the bear um and there are points of earthrope you know people go
well is that really what it’s like it’s good actually yeah it is um but it’s a fantastic show and
I do recommend it to anyone there you go we’ve got work done yes home done yes now well for you
sticking perhaps with the hospitality absolutely the um what what about you going out where where’s the
okay um pubs with bad wine lists oh I mean anybody that knows me knows I like my wine um and
I like a pub I like a beer I do like a beer I like a pint but inevitably I’m probably gonna drink wine
if I go out more than anything else and especially if I’m going out with a certain group of
friends who are beer drinkers they’re gonna want to go to the pub and there’s no reason why pubs
have to have a terrible wine list because you can get some amazing wines that are affordable
doesn’t have to be that cheap wines no good yeah just it should be that you just get really
good value cheap wine yeah um and also there’s no reason why if you go to a pub that they need to have
four white wines and they’re all sovereign on block and four red wines and they’re all more back
because there’s so many good affordable wines that are different grape varieties so I find it
really frustrating when you go to a pub and you get there and all they have is just naff wine
um because some pubs do it really well and they should all be able to do that they just need
someone who’s got a bit of interest and yeah it takes their time to say well actually we can find a
really good bottle of wine that we’re selling at 20 pounds a bottle or 25 pounds a bottle or even 30
pounds a bottle an hour days and it has perfectly acceptable in the pub sure but he’s something that’s
just a bit more exciting and tasty and I find it frustrating yeah well especially if you you know
like your wines and and uh want because pubs now spend a lot of time and effort in craft b’s and
you know you can go and have 20 30 different b’s and they can talk about every aspect at the beer
absolutely and why doesn’t that transfer over to wine and I think if you consider that yes
I imagine the demographic in pubs are predominantly male but I think there’s also a demographic
in there of the book runging partner or the bloke that doesn’t want to drink beer yeah or women
are going out with other girlfriends but don’t want to drink beer yeah and therefore I think there
is a demographic for people who want to drink nice wine and shouldn’t have to pop with I don’t
want to name wine brands because I think it’d be really rude to do so but uh but you know the naff
New Zealand Southern Yon Blanc but everybody knows and uh and taste like you know dishwasher
fluid or something like that so I think um so yeah pubs just uh rubbish wine there’s no reason
yeah you shouldn’t do that your your one job is service decent booze yeah
of all varieties of all variety and stop serving gourdins as gin about gins but yeah give
us a nice wine as well yeah well no I think that’s a fair gruy part to me you know I think
are you saying the rest of my gripes haven’t been fair well look now he’s a microfiber
yeah I walk out my own podcast oh you gripes actually what’s that?
I’m not better at taking them oh yeah yeah goddamn it I’ll cancel his podcast appearance straight away
um no all your gripes have been very fair actually yep I think it’s a different time now
yeah and I think there’s a different sort of pubgoer now I think so going back to when I was
sort of uh doing my main my main drinking is it was just go to the pub and have the
one beer that they’ve got yeah and it’s I think there’s a funny thing with blokes now it’s okay to
be nerdy about your beer and to go and say where was this from and then how was it made and
gosh this has got a particularly sort of citrusy note to it and all those things whereas
back in the day you probably couldn’t get away with doing that it was just a logger or you never know
that was it that was you choice yeah so I think that’s sort of carried through to beer and I don’t know
why that’s not carrying through to one do you think it does in food? Other settings but not in
pubs for some reason and like I say I can’t say this is the case for all pubs because I do know a
number of pubs that uh do really good wine list and I know that our wine supply or whatever wine
supplies serves wine to some amazing pubs and that you know we’ve seen our wine lists on their wine
list you know wines from eyes on their and I think that’s really good but um I think just in general
too many pubs just do awful wine since it just is a bind to yeah I think you know for us we’re in
a small village in black heathen in southeast London and I think we’ve got six pubs in the village
and we’ve got one wine bar and the wine bar doesn’t do beer and the pubs do
half wine red or white to the best of choice and it just makes it difficult when I’m
wanting to go out and if I’m going out with someone that wants to have a beer I’m forced to drink
yeah and have wine so um yeah I think they just need to step their game on yeah it’s a plan a
little bit of catch up yeah because yeah absolutely other industry seem to have done it and the
restaurant tried certainly I mean obviously it’s always sort of have been rooted in that sort of
wine but even the sort of restaurants that work at a lower budget which perhaps are known for
their wine have really sort of stepped up and I think you know there are restaurants that do wine
pairings with their food menu but they will also do beer pairings with their food as well and you
think well if a restaurant can do a beer pairing yeah and find beers that perfectly match the food
why can’t a pub do wines that are tasty are not expensive yeah because they’re definitely out there
yeah so I think it’s about value and I think one of the things in the industry that
we’ve had to adapt to a lot recently with the cost of living crisis and everything’s been going on is
just offering value yeah it’s not necessarily about it being cheap or expensive it’s about
value for money yeah um because if you go somewhere and buy a steak but that steak cost you
30 quid but you feel that that was a really good quality steak that’s been aged and
there’s got good sauce with it and sides and everything else you can go actually
come get value for money there yeah and you really saw I could go and buy a steak from a I won’t name
the name but let’s say rhymes with weather moons god that was that was code they’ll never be broken
know where that went out but that might cost you 15 quid I have no idea I’m guessing yeah
um and you go well it is good value it’s not a very good quality steak and the garnish that goes
with it is a bit naff but again you know for 15 quid it’s good value yeah and I think it’s always
about value as long as someone can come away and say to you you know what I feel like I got my
money’s worth it yeah and a conversation with someone on twitter about this yesterday because they
felt that a Sunday roast that they ordered was too expensive my center of the problem is is that
you know the second we put heat to whatever it is we’re cooking we’ve got to add 20% to it for that
and the energy prices that we’re paying at the moment in restaurants are through the roof
yeah and they’re higher rates than you pay on your energy prices at home and obviously we are
putting a lot more energy on than anywhere else my ovens my stove my lights and everything else
that goes on so you know immediately everything costs more and then of course you need three or four
chefs and someone to wash up and people to serve you the food and people to pour you the drinks
so you’ve got to pay for all of those people as well and minimum wage is going up again and it’s
gone up already this year so all of these things you know cost you more money and that’s why your
Sunday roast costs you what it does when you go out to eat it in a pub or a restaurant yeah it’s not
that those pubs and restaurants are just basically you know rolling around in cash and driving Lamborghini
to the end of the day that’s just not the case you know our margins are so so fine but
if you can come out of that Sunday roast and say well actually I got really good value for money
here because I had a nice bit of meat and some nice vegetables and a good glass of wine and had a
comfortable chair in a warm pub and had good conversation with my friends and at the end of it I
didn’t have to do any washing up I kept a local business going for a little bit longer I think there’s
good van and it’s the same in the kitchen you know people don’t understand but I turn up to the
kitchen at seven o’clock in the morning and turn on my ovens and start cooking and preparing and
and that like I say sometimes it’s three days in there in the process and the ingredient costs
high right now because inevitably everything costs more since Brexit everything costs more especially
if we’re transporting things from Europe wines and some fruit and veg yeah then you start off
costs are high because cost of living is high so you need to pay your stuff a bit better so that they
can afford to survive yeah so that costs more energy bills so I just went up a thousand pounds
a week this year whoa thousand pounds a week as a restaurant we don’t make a thousand pounds
a week in profit so yeah you’re then gonna find that money somewhere and you’ve got to find a way
of doing that with that putting your prices back up because of course if we put our prices up
people don’t want to pay it because their energy bills have gone up at home and their shopping bill
has gone up so all of these things go into it and it calls the big kind of elephant in the room is
that and it’s yeah that’s definitely a gripe of mine because that’s just it’s a tax on on what exactly
it’s it’s just the government saying well I want to charge you an extra 20% okay cool but but why
because you’re heated something up but that’s not really fair because I bought that apple when it
didn’t cost me anything but as soon as I’ve roasted it to go with my pork you’re charging me I’ve
got a charge 20% on it and I’m giving that straight to the government yeah so we try and work really
transparently as much as we can and if anyone follows me on Twitter they’ll see that I’ll often do
that when I’m talking about the business in the industry but again it is that there’s so much
expense that for if you were to come into a restaurant and spend £100 on a meal for one person for two
people for four people you know depending on where you’re eating the reality is is that the profit
on that for a restaurant is probably less than a fibre and the majority of that is gone to paying
the staff paying BAT and other taxes and then your utilities you’re renting everything else on top
and yeah you know the reality is is that yes you can absolutely do that cheaper at home
where you’re not paying for the ingredient you’re paying for the whole thing and everything’s cheap
you know absolutely it’s incredible that’s bad week maddened oh it’s crazy yeah you pay 80 3000 a year
on our energy wow it’s more restaurant but it is what it is and and then you talk to the energy
companies when you’re negotiating and they say well actually if you had a restaurant in Manchester
you’d be paying less but why is the it’s the same electricity I’m pretty sure
but it’s those little things that you pay for that you don’t understand quite why you be in charge
that and it kind of goes back to that same thing about gluten free bread like why am I paying more
for it why because you have to because someone has made that decision yeah you haven’t got a choice
environment tax environment tax yeah and uh what we do pay an environment tax is actually on our
energy um and yeah we have to pay a levy and and to a certain extent I’m fine with that you know
there are taxes that I’m very cool with and I think generally taxes are an important thing
you know we need to pay tax and I think generally I’d be happy to pay more tax if I’ve got better
public services for it sure but when you’re paying tax for essentially nothing in return you’re
just going well and this is this is nasty yeah and then it’s it feels uh unfair as well I always think
when you look at a business and you you take energy for instance as you were mentioning there
when you look at energy and it’s something that is the same for everybody it’s going down the same
routine to a property as it is a business and the difference between business and property
you know or personal use it’s the as you said it’s the same electricity but because it’s a
business which I can’t cap it yeah one cap it um and it’s a higher rate as well yeah I kind of
want our prices higher than it is for a domestic and yeah but it’s the same energy yeah but I will
charge it it’s kind of it’s a wedding I will charge it more I will charge more I will charge it more
charging and I think that’s where it’s frustrating you know these these things that are just charge
more for the sake of it insurance yeah yeah insurances that you have to have insurance for certain things
yeah whether or not you’re ever going to claim on it yeah yeah have to have it uh and then when
you want to claim on it that’ll like the charge you more because what you’ve claimed on it now so
you need to be premium up and you go yeah that doesn’t mean I’m going to claim on it again yeah yeah
just because I claimed on it once doesn’t mean this is a regular thing yeah and then often when
you try and claim when you can’t and so you probably won’t know this but a couple of years ago there
was this thing called COVID you heard of it seems to ring a bell like maybe a customer it’s quite
interesting there’s quite an interesting so obviously yeah COVID affected us all um one more
another it affected everybody in in the world I’d like to say in the country but in the world and
hospitality was um it quite hard in the sense that we were also sold by the government you aren’t
allowed to open you’ve got to shut down the same as us yeah and I won’t go into you know the political
side of whether or not that was the right decision and how they acted afterwards when we were
allowed to open and then close and then open and then close but you then say to your insurance
company who you’ve been paying all these years hey I’ve got business interruption insurance
and my business has now been interrupted and I can’t trade yeah um so I’d like to
blame for that please because I still got to pay my insurance despite the fact that I’m not now
trading but I need to still pay my insurance that’s fun and my rent and my energy bills and everything
else that I’ve got to pay so I’ve got these overheads that I’ve got no income for and the
insurance company says well actually you’re not covered for a pandemic sir but why not because
we’re paying insurance for a reason and that’s where in things like insurance again I just
what’s the point of having these things if you’re forced to pay for it yeah but actually it’s not
worth anything because you can’t blame for it yeah it’s very strange I think they did an insurance
that was you can claim for anything yep and you know that they’ll never be a question over it but
it’s going to cost you X amount yep more I think a lot of people would probably go for that
safety because yeah it’s a safety net that’s how you think of it absolutely a safety net but yeah
you just think be fair with it just be realistic and fair because you know you’ve had thousands and
thousands and thousands of pounds of my money every month for years and years and years and years
and then when eventually I come to you and say hey look I need I need some help now and I go
actually you know you can’t you can’t have any no yeah no very yeah it’s it’s it’s it’s the gluten-free
business of the world insurance isn’t it? It’s free wedding insurance yeah oh look now there’s
there’s the place to be
we’ve got one last one last thing to to go for now I’m bringing down the bowler hat okay now what
this bowler hat is is the last section of the it’s like a lucky pick it’s like a yeah now which we
cleverly called off the cuff okay because it’s the off the cuff thing that you haven’t talked about
yeah quite but as our previous guest has pointed out we then put the off the cuff things in a bowler
hat yeah which then stops it making any sense so it’s got to be upon there somewhere I’m sure
well that has we’re yet to come up with it but the idea was to pin these two a cuff so that you could
yeah think about how it works better it does but we need to find a sort of thing with a rim I
don’t know this could go this is good sorry Sam Sam they’re going in the corner now take it that way
sorry yes the yeah well call it what you will as you take a subject from the rig God I’m going to
go for this one well I was I was seeing if I could I mean this is ironic we’ve got hairdressers
I know this is a podcast so if anyone doesn’t actually know me I am bald as am I as is
you yeah Sam is not Sam what’s bad about being a hairdresser okay well I can’t well first thing do
you cut your own I do cut my own hair and I think trim the beard trim vision this last year when I
need to so okay it’s not specifically hairdressers but it’s her related and I think it was frustrating
so I am bald I’m not I’m not purely bald I shave my head yeah because I should shave my head at this
point you know you get to that point in life or if you let it grow would you be doing the fill Colin
oh yeah I mean it would look terrible I weirdly started balding at the front in the middle
okay and then started going at the top and everywhere else where in normally you end up with
that a little island in the middle that’s the bit that went bald first for me which is fine so you
you went backwards I went backwards you got a bigger forehead I did yeah and a longer fringe absolutely
much yeah and for me if I were to let my hair grow out because it is quite dark on the top not in the
beard I would have a very very thin top right and it would look and I think you get to point in life
where you make a decision yeah I don’t want to look like this anymore because I look like an idiot
yeah so I shaved it all off and that’s fine but I like yeah I think well yeah in this one we can relate
to it that’s fine but everyone says to me oh it must be pretty good it’s easy maintenance yeah
and annoyingly small maintenance yeah because when you have a shaved head you have to do it every
single week sometimes twice a week yeah because otherwise it looks really bad yeah so yeah so for me
it’s not going to the hairdresser’s all unless you do do that yourself but I can’t afford to because
they’re on a restaurant yeah but now I need to shave my head every single week yeah to maintain a
bald head yeah and that’s ridiculous because I am bald I shouldn’t have to do that yeah I 100%
I’m with you on that yeah 100% because it is that weak greeting and I I’ll know if I’ve left it
slightly too long one Sam keeps looking at the top of my head and I go Scott fluffy on the top
hasn’t it should be like yeah but also the thing that goes along with it is I don’t know what your
clip is alive but my clip is that bad and they miss like all those three or four hairs that just
you down and then come back up yeah yeah so we have nice little um it would let them you into a little
the socks yeah yeah yeah yeah yeah yeah yeah yeah yeah yeah yeah yeah yeah yeah yeah really good forget
we use those for herbs in the kitchen yeah you see but I use them for threads at home but yeah
it helps in the kitchen yeah and they’re threads and they one or two hairs that won’t yep
that the clipers won’t get I don’t know what that is how is that even possible rubbish clip is
I get yeah I browse I don’t my wife constantly will say to me I love your eyebrows today yeah
and you know this is going to sound really attractive yeah yeah sweet sweet it’s not even inside
the ear now this outside the ear yeah come on yeah I don’t need this in my life yeah it’s bad enough
that I’m bored and now I’ve got shaped the outside of ears yeah they’re fucking yeah do you just try
to put our nose hairs as well so nose hairs obviously I’m well known for having a moustache yeah
and I’m supporting a full beard as we discussed earlier um but if you’ve got a moustache and then you have
nose hairs often those two things connect yeah and then when they do connect you spend half the day going
oh of course something something knows what is it so I just rip out nose hairs my wife hates it
rip out nose hairs you’ve stopped doing it exactly that
uh Bern is less the the actual fact that I’m doing it’s more the sort of jerky move
yeah of the set A if I’m in bed and I find an eyebrow hair and I’ll rip it out and then the whole
bed jerks and then she wakes up and then I’m in trouble so but once you know it’s there you’ve got to
get I’ll leave it no you’ve got to get it so if someone points an hour I’ll then be like um
until it’s gone yeah it’s uh it’s probably in the kitchen toms it doesn’t matter oh is that what it is
yeah yeah the good old kitchen toms for the for the yeah I’ve resisted that so far my kitchen when
you come into eat my food we definitely don’t pull out eyebrow or nose hairs good I wish
to use the kitchen we use the fish tweezers obviously without doubt well I imagine actually they’d
be pretty good yeah actually because they’re quite tight definitely tight sort of they’ll be at
brisket there’s a hair if I need to but yeah now the uh your little snips we we use for um for herbs
in the kitchen but we had a chef who has a shaved head as well and he once Mr. Pach and came in and
used one of his cooking knives to get back a little bit of hair because it’s the back of the head
that you can’t you don’t always get your missus yeah and occasionally you’ll get the clipers
in the back of the head and you miss a bit and that’s what you’ve done is Mr. Bitton someone
pointed it out so he had the kitchen knife out well I can’t why not they yeah that that will do it
that one do yeah I’m with you on the um I sort of miss going to the hairdressers actually because I’m
being now for we could we could pretend that you’re there and ask you if you’re doing everything
nice at the weekend yeah see it’s all that sort of small talk some people don’t like the small talk
but I sort of but do you do that here he’s coming to a tailor’s similarity going to a barb
is yes yeah barb is just where you have that small talk of you know doing anything nice for the
weekend sir do you dress up left or the right this is well sometimes you do have to go down that
route um oh sometimes the customer will nicely tell you which which side they dress yeah if they’re
only having a shirt they’ve gone above yeah well that’s very not what they’re really enjoying the
service maybe yeah that’s uh once and only once I didn’t ask and I should have done because we
it was for a fashion show as well actually because I was measuring four trousers and I measured one
thigh yeah then I measured the other thigh and went ah that’s a bit bigger that’s and he went on
dreadfully sorry and hefted everything out of the way yeah it was it was yeah that’s the same face
you did when we talked about ball eggs yeah people off people on microchips and yeah it was it was
it was an experience I wouldn’t necessarily want to repeat as a tailor it was there well he
proper he hefted I’m so glad that you haven’t videoed this on a bus on microphone yeah well hey we’re
we’ve always said right when we started doing this podcast that it was a sort of anything goes
yeah the chat should be about you know wherever it goes I wasn’t expecting it to go there today
I don’t think any of us were but you know hey look we’re there now good on there hopefully good
oh yeah good on there hopefully yeah so yeah so let’s bring it back to hairdress and
so yeah so there you go yeah and on that note on that by the show we could we could leave it there
but so listen it’s been a real pleasure talking to you today likewise thank you very much
we we and no I can’t come that’s one of the things with me once there’s one something’s there in my
mind it’s gonna just keep going back and you brought wine of course and I don’t really drink anymore
I know everything’s combined to take it there so anyway been a pleasure speaking with you today Tony
and let’s let’s do it again absolutely without the what why don’t we say
heft yeah without the heft and that but that’s great we’re lovely talking to you thank you
so there you have it episode five is in the bag I’ve said a massive thank you to Tony for coming on
the podcast and for bringing a bottle of wine too some of you may know that since recording the
podcast Tony sadly had to close his restaurant hospitality businesses are having it so tough
at the moment and with very little help so do follow Tony on social media he explains it so much
better than I ever could thanks as always to not only our guests but to Stuart Wilson for editing
and production Sam for keeping this moving along and to dad has a further music so until next time
do try not to get too shirty
♪ ♪