Gary James – Failed Apache

The Transcript:

Welcome to Get Shirty, the podcast where we ask our guests about the things in life that just never failed to irritate and get them all shirty. The chat focuses on home, work and going out, but could go anywhere. And it’s not all German gloom as each guest gets a major measure shirt which they design, so we talk about that too. Funny that, us being tailors.
[Music]
How can it be episode 4 already? Well, it is and our guest is Gary James, actor, writer and presenter.
Gary actually grew up just around the corner from our shop here in South Bratamadrilles,
before moving to London to pursue his acting career. Along with acting, Gary was also one of the
presenters on the groundbreaking ’80s music show The Tube’ where he interviewed the stars at the
time and we discussed some of the highs and lows that that brings during our chat. We also chat,
’80s after shave, the joys of trains and why you shouldn’t do ‘Gary a surprise party’
amongst other things. So here we go, three tailors, two marks, one guest and a host of the rotation.
Let’s get shirted.
[Music]
Welcome Gary to the Gitt shirty podcast. [Music]
Thank you, it’s a pleasure to have you here and also to do a bit of tailoring for you as well.
We’re going to tell you a nice shirt. It’s marvellous, I can’t believe that somebody is going to make me
look fabulous in something bespoke. Sometimes it’s anyone’s done anything bespoke to me.
[Laughter]
You were pretty fabulous from way away. Well, it’s very kind of you to say so and
gosh, this has started off well. Yeah, I was happy. Applauses and compliments.
Yeah. Within the first two minutes. Beautiful. That doesn’t often happen.
If I had all the life was like that, I’d say that’s why I’ve heard that be.
Might do that, but it would probably be slightly disconcerting if everywhere you went,
you know, just walking into the shop, you got a little…
[Applause]
I’d like to get that out of you.
Oh, really? Yeah, it’s really.
20 Rothman’s, please. [Applause]
Yeah, actually, it doesn’t sound too bad.
Sure, we could go for that. Maybe if we have the pleasure of meeting again,
we’ll just… We’ll give you that right. That would be much appreciated.
Yeah, so let’s go with that.
So, the idea of today’s podcast or the chat today is to sort of talk about,
maybe get off our chest a few of the things in life, which we find slightly annoying at times,
hence the get-shirty name of the podcast.
And we tend to look at sort of three areas on that.
The work, home, and going out all the, as the Mars Bar view of it all, work, rest and play.
So, why don’t we start off with from a work point of view?
So, what are the things in previous working life?
We’re now working life where they’ve just irritated you to the point where you think you might want to get involved in justice.
Well, I think that’s a tough one.
I think probably from the acting side, I can’t bear working with mumblers.
Right.
I’ve really laid it out on the slab very early here, I bet.
That’s good. But there’s a bug in my day.
If you trained in the theatre, you’d be more audible.
It’s probably, I mean, let’s be honest, if you can’t, if you’re audience can’t hear you.
That’s probably not a very good thing.
But then as years gone by and a lot of younger people have done more TV and come up through that side,
it’s a very different style of delivery.
And there’s this dreadful tendency for people to mumble.
Mumblers.
And also, I think a lot of people that are doing life-like performances.
So, if you’re doing stuff that’s kind of angst-filled,
how do you do it?
They tend to keep it very, very low, what have you, which is fine if you’re in row A.
Right.
Yeah.
But if you’re any further back, no one’s going to hear you.
And I saw a, I went to see…
Blind Spirit.
A few years back.
And it drove me nuts.
Right.
My partner, we were second-to-seater now, I think we were in row J,
and he kept saying to me, “I can’t hear them.”
And they were mic’d up.
Right.
I mean, we never had knives.
Right.
But you!
And that drives me nuts.
Working with people.
Mumblers.
Yeah.
Oh, I don’t like…
How can I put this…
The stuck-up type side that…
Right, oh gosh.
So, you don’t have to name names or…
No, no, no, no.
Oh, don’t worry.
I’m not doing that.
Damn it.
But I’ve had some tough times in the past with people who think,
“Well, because you’re famous,
that people should behave differently around you.”
Right, okay.
And that’s…
Entitlement.
Yeah.
Yeah.
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
Look, I’m from High Brooms.
Yeah.
So, you know…
Oh, nice.
No, Tunbridge Wells.
Tunbridge Wells.
Yes.
But, so, yeah, I’ve never kind of got off on that.
And when I was doing the tube,
the first live interview, on live TV,
I ever did, was with Andy Summers.
Right.
And from the police.
From the police.
And he’d had a ding dong with the producers.
Right.
Before we went on air,
because he wanted, I think, about 12 minutes or something like that,
12 or 14 minutes, something like that.
All right, so he was talking about this…
Yeah, he was a man of time. So, Luke and I were in.
Yeah, just done this album with Robert Fripp, called “I Advance Masked”. Check it up. All right.
And he wanted to talk about the artwork, like a culture of an art. Well, this is very onion. We didn’t work like that.
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
Three or four minutes at the most.
Yeah.
And so, he was in a foul mood when he sat down opposite me.
I’d never met him from Adam.
All right.
But this is my first live TV.
So, this was your first…
Very much.
He was.
He was.
Wow.
I do.
And he just kind of looked down his nose at like, “Who are you, little?”
“Gob-shite”.
And gave me what I thought at the time was a pretty rough ride.
Right.
What he didn’t realise was, is that, quite frankly, I couldn’t have cared less.
Yeah.
Whatever.
All right.
He’d come out with…
Oh, look. There it is.
That’s the artwork.
There’s the artwork.
Oh, that’s the last…
Yeah.
Er…
I wanted to talk about that for 15 minutes.
I was… I’m not sure you could.
Yeah.
I mean, that’s not…
Don’t you know what?
It’s quite…
It’s very nice.
It’s very nice.
Yeah.
It’s very nice artwork.
But, in my head, I was just panicked about getting everything that I’d got planned
for this interview within the short time.
Yeah.
And, er…
Well, yeah, is…
And it’s probably very nice, you know?
Yeah.
I just didn’t… I mean, he came on.
We did it and he went off and that was the last I ever saw of him.
Yeah.
So, did you have a…
During that sort of time when you were interviewing all these people, is there one that you go?
Well, that was my favourite.
Have you got a favourite?
Yeah, I’ve got two.
Right.
Actually, two favourites.
One was the Weather Girls.
Right.
Which we recorded.
It was very unusual to record.
And I think it’s because…
They were… The producers realised that once they got me and them together,
that it was too risky for live TV.
Right.
I mean, they actually took one interview off me completely and gave it to Muriel instead.
Right.
And that was the interview with Divine.
Because I had pestered them to get Divine, I would get Divine and get Divine.
Yeah.
And then, when…
He did come on the show.
We’d all been out boozing the night before.
And, Diven, I had made up… At that point, I thought I was still going to do the interview with him.
Right.
And we’d made up what was going to happen.
And I was going to outrage him and he was going to beat me up on…
Right.
I know, really.
I think…
They got wind of that and thought we can’t possibly let that go out.
So, they took it off me.
It’s a Muriel instead.
And instead, Divine was quite sort of notorious at the time.
Anyway, all was this sort of…
Yeah, yeah, me.
I don’t know.
He was still, I mean, his act was right out there.
But he was the sweetest, kindest, most gentle person that I ever really met in that.
That was…
He was a lovely, lovely guy.
Right.
But then, he dragged him out on stage.
It was like Alice Cooper, you know?
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
Beast unleashed.
And so…
But when I did the Weather Girls one, I think they thought there might be a repeat of that.
Right, I can.
Which was very unfair on them.
Because they weren’t like…
They weren’t like that at all.
They weren’t like Martha Warshan, or…
They were lovely.
But we did push the boat out a bit.
Because I knew it was being recorded.
And we started talking about Michael Jackson’s willy.
And the audience loved it.
I mean, we…
I think I was…
Because I said, you know, had they met him and…
And what is…
I’d heard that some bits were dropping off him because of the thriller video, you know?
So it kind of went in a very bizarre area.
And if you watch, if you ever do find that interview,
you can see where the edits are.
But they were terrific. That was good fun.
And did they perform on the show?
Yeah, they did. They did.
They did. I have really…
Yes!
They did.
They did.
And it was…
That was a fun time.
So yeah, that was a good one.
No, I’ve never been a huge…
I didn’t like 80-spations.
Right.
I mean, I looked at complete Burke in the stuff that I was mincing around me at the time.
I came on…
I did…
I did a re-hurt.
Oh God, I’ve just suddenly thought.
I did a re…
Ten’s television.
All right.
Did a school’s program…
In on the tube, on the making off the tube,
or high.
And they were filming rehearsals in the afternoon.
And in one scene of it, if I remember rightly,
I come down a staircase to do a link.
And I’m wearing this like…
Jason King Japanese sort of…
[Laughs]
I think it was…
Would you call them things with a belt round?
Like a…
I can smoke you.
I’ll roll like a smokey…
Like a smokey jacket.
So this day, I’ve no idea where I got that…
That’s right.
…I’ll put Jason King as well.
Yeah.
Yeah.
And I caught sight of it.
I thought, “God almighty, what was I thinking?”
Yeah.
And there’s probably an awful lot of people that wore stuff back then.
We’d look at it now and think…
What was I thinking?
Yeah, I see.
In ’85, ’86, I had a proper…
Andrew Rigely flick, like a bridge.
[Laughs]
A bridge.
What was that bordering on a mullet?
Yeah, I didn’t have the bit.
I had a little bit of the back, but what I used to do
was get the hairdryer underneath it at the front.
So they really curved up and dropped down.
And then I’d hairspray it,
to within an inch of its line.
But the trouble was when I went out in the wind, what it did was it…
The whole thing moved as one.
Did he go flock of seagones?
No, never went out.
Never went out.
Yeah, no.
But the whole thing just used to lift up and then replace itself.
So, never went out of place other than in one lump.
So, you’ve got…
By the time I left…
…I got my 80s there.
Yeah, by the time…
I think the best thing about it, the best thing I remember about the fascism is
I finally managed to get a flat top.
Right.
Which is something I always wanted.
Properly.
With the giant comb with the spirit level.
It was…
It was…
You could have rested a try of drinks on it.
Really nice.
I was so proud of that.
Yeah, I started to lose my hair.
I’m not long, probably because of all the bleaching I used to do with that peroxide.
Do you remember that?
Yeah.
I do remember that.
Peroxide…
60 or 40 or something.
Yeah.
It was blue.
And burnt…
burnt your head.
Yeah.
I had a…
…shade, almost shaved head,
and then a long straight fringe as well at one point,
which I’d dyed blonde.
Did you have a fellow okey?
Did you…
Did you have a half one?
No, I did.
I should have done.
I should have done.
And if I could do it now…
…which I can’t.
But…
Did you ever meet Philip Philip?
No, I just…
I knew you were going to ask.
I had a…
I had a…
…folly left, I didn’t.
And yet, humanly, that wasn’t round about that time, though.
Yeah, yeah.
So, you do 24 or something, right?
Yeah.
No, I…
There’s quite a few people around that everybody would assume that I might have
come across when I was doing the show that I didn’t.
And even though…
One group, I never…
I never know.
Was it a good experience doing the show?
No.
I don’t know.
I really…
It was not.
No.
So…
Well, I…
Well, you can say…
…once once we’ve finished recording,
Philip Eater, spelled the name, then…
It was kind of…
…wracking in a way that…
I always get a…
…thrill out going on stage.
Right.
As an actor.
And I get a buzz out of that.
I didn’t get a buzz out of doing live TV.
I think because half a time I was so terrified.
Yeah, yeah.
And I didn’t want that to show.
And it was properly live.
Yeah, it was properly…
Oh, God, yeah.
No delay.
But the two got taken off the air in the end because Jules…
Oh, yeah.
Jules came out with…
…I don’t be a groovy fucker, I was.
And as a result, that was one step too far.
And the show ended, but I’d gone by that put in.
Right.
But during the course of that, doing that show,
which I only did it for two and a half years,
so it’s not like something…
I’ve still been in the first a long time to do live TV.
But…
I met two particular heroes of my…
Well, I met three actually.
Three heroes of mine.
And they always say, you know,
when you meet a hero,
it can either come crashing down…
Or it will be wonderful.
And I’m pleased to say that in all three cases,
it was a positive experience.
Oh, great.
But one was Barry Humphries, who I’d actually met previously.
Right.
Briefly.
He came and did one of the mid-summer nights,
which was the five hour live specials.
Okay.
I did two of those at the first two.
And he did less patisserie, did they?
Oh, I know.
And I spent more or less…
All afternoon with him in his dressing room,
talking with him and watching them get made up.
And he was amazing,
really generous and…
And I got an earthicke.
All right.
I spent a long time with her as well,
talking to her.
And I’ll come back to her in a minute.
The third one was Mickey Finn from T-Rex.
He was Mark Bowlin,
previously died in 1977.
He had a big finding Mickey Finn from T-Rex.
He would never given an interview before.
There was a bit of a find.
So that was cool.
But Earther…
When she came to do her number,
she was expecting to sing live to a backing track.
When she came to do her bit,
they put the wrong backing track.
They put a 12-inch mix that she’d never heard before.
Oh, right.
And then it had a vocal already on it.
So when she came down the steps of her,
a lot of people thought that this was a bad performance from her.
But in fact, there was a reason for it.
She was completely called out.
She had to mine to a version she’d never heard before.
And then, anyway, I’m down there with Steve Grant from Type Fit,
supposed to be dating.
Oh, right.
To do an interview with her.
Type Fit as in in the jungle.
To see Ireland and…
Yeah.
Yeah.
And Steve was a mate of mine.
And anyway.
Yeah.
So she comes down after this disastrous performance.
And I’m thinking, oh, my God,
I’ve got two interviewer and she had a face-like thunder
when she came and sat down.
We had this show’s long thing.
And I thought, this interview’s going to be a car crash.
It’s just not…
And we started the interview.
And I saw her.
I remember I’d spent all afternoon with her,
getting to know her and talking to her.
We got on like a house of mine.
And I remember looking at her and she looked at…
I asked her a question.
She looked me in the eye and I thought,
this is the point at which she is either going to eviscerate me.
Yeah.
Or she’ll come down.
And I saw her eyes relax.
Right.
And we had fun with the interview after that.
But that was a really tense moment.
I wouldn’t want to go through that again.
Did I enjoy it?
No.
So if there were a set of scales,
do the positives that you got from it out
why the less enjoyable bits or…
How do you think back on it in general?
Well, I kind of blotted it out for some time until I wrote my autobiography,
which haven’t said “pump eat” when I say it now, so pompous.
Yeah, we’ll see.
You know, we’ll see if you think you write any story,
but I didn’t do it for that.
I wrote about the tube bit because I knew it was something a hook.
Yeah.
That I could probably…
Yeah, there were some copies of the back up.
But I didn’t write the book for that.
I wrote it as a tribute main to an old friend of mine.
Right.
So I found writing about it quite difficult
because I had to revisit some of it to remember what went on.
Yeah, and it’s…
I suppose in life, you know, without getting too…
sort of philosophical about it in life,
we sort of let the good things bubble up,
and we…
The bits about it that we light, we sort of…
It’s easy to recall those things because they’re a nice bit,
but the sort of…
The less enjoyable parts of our lives, I suppose,
we tend not to want to revisit them unless we have to.
Yeah, you’re right.
There’s a kind of… there’s a kind of intensity about…
God, I nearly said showing business.
It’s all I can imagine, but to the end of time of business,
there’s an intensity…
Yeah.
It’s a bit of it.
It bursts of extreme intensity,
and then come down…
And then come down to that, can I be positive?
Or they can be really, really bad.
Something goes really badly.
You live that moment over and over again in your mind,
and it becomes quite a negative thing.
And that doesn’t really matter what mode of it.
It’s television radio stage.
Everyone has their…
They’re good.
Staff and bad.
Do you find when you’re doing theatre day,
if you have one of those moments,
that you know you’ve got a chance to do…
to do it again?
You know what I mean?
It’s like, “Oh, I’m doing an excellent performance of this,
and I can write that wrong.”
Well, it’s kind of a bit…
Yeah, and no, you’re right.
Yes, it’s the answer to that.
Right.
But I think theatre is…
a different…
It’s a different thing every night anyway.
Yeah.
So the light television, once it’s done, that’s it.
It’s gone.
Whatever, whatever,
whatever, co-cups you’ve had,
whatever, great times you’ve had.
There it is, it’s done.
It’s there forever.
And you, you know…
You have to pick a part and deal with that.
Yeah.
Theatre, yes, you’re right.
The next night,
because the audience reactions can be different.
You’ve got a chance to do it again and…
And the experience is different.
Yeah.
For everybody.
Yeah.
That’s probably why I’ve always preferred theatre too.
Yeah.
And television.
Well, it’s…
And it’s an instant thing.
I imagine, with theatre.
Yeah, I suppose a live TV gave you that as well.
But is it like an instant…
Hmm…
So, were you getting some feedback, don’t you?
Yeah, you do.
Yeah, but in television…
In television, I found people will tell you something was terrific,
even if it wasn’t.
Right.
I don’t ever remember anybody giving negative feedback,
even though I look back at some of it now,
it makes me want to crawl into a whole and cover myself up
and never come out again.
But people do tend to…
And of course the key is,
Mark Bowlin once said in an interview,
“You’ve got to remember you’re not all you’re cracked up to be.”
Right.
And because he was one of my areas,
that was an expression I never really forgot.
And when I did the tube,
I would rather have been with the engineering crews,
and the techies, they were my mates,
and I enjoyed that experience more than I did actually
in front of the camera.
Again, in the entertainment business,
it’s very easy to get pushed into places
that you really don’t want to be in.
So I was never into drugs.
I was never a big drinker.
I mean, I’m not saying I didn’t have my vices,
because I did, that was real lie,
but…
And I’m certainly not good at all about that.
But it’s very easy to get pushed into areas
that you can’t get out of.
And I was never into all of that.
So, yeah, which is probably why I didn’t do the last day.
[Laughs]
[Laughs]
So there’s sort of home side of things
that are being…
A wife and wife being at home,
you know, what are the things…
You know, we’ve had all sorts on this actually,
from dishwashers through to…
Yeah, yeah, that was the very first one.
But, yeah, is there something like…
So you’re not a work, you’re at home?
Yeah.
Are there, you know, could be anything.
And the areas of that, that you think,
oh, that I’ve always found that irritating.
To ask you about features.
And I am…
I don’t like having to empty the dishwasher,
like it gets on my tip end.
[Laughs]
Or else don’t I like…
Dishwashers are good centuries, aren’t they?
Yeah, well, well, you mentioned it.
I did, I did, yeah.
I probably wouldn’t have reached the dishwashers,
if you hadn’t mentioned that.
I love ironing, which is probably…
why I went for a nice grand out shirt.
Yeah, very nice out shirt, by the first colour of the shirt.
Yeah, I don’t like ironing.
Yeah.
So, I haven’t really got many things
that I could say at home that I don’t like to be honest.
I mean, I really love my little house,
don’t where I live now, in East Sussex.
And not that far away from here.
And I’m very happy there.
Yeah, Ben.
Well, I mean, that’s the thing,
we were a local lad, to here.
Just over there.
Yeah, it’s called “Jast over there”, literally, just this.
Yeah, literally.
Yeah, it’s down through, isn’t it, from the shop?
Yeah, it was.
Very happy to, it was quite rough then.
Yeah.
But yeah, I didn’t expect very much of it,
so I don’t know if I was Ridgeway boys and girls.
We got taken…
I don’t know how many people…
You know when they take you for job experience?
Yeah.
We got taken to the abattoir.
And even now, when I’m going up to London,
when you leave Fibroons and you go towards Tom Ridge,
if you look down, there’s a field on the left hand side,
just by the abattoir, which is still there.
Right.
And in the morning, I’ll go by and it’s full of sheep.
And when I come back in the end of that, it’s empty.
And it still upsets me even now.
And we got dragged around the up and down.
There was nothing going on in there,
when they took us all the way.
Right.
As school kids.
But can you imagine anyone taking…
So that’s what they expected of us.
They expected us to be…
Have a sort of earthy abattoir work, isn’t stuff.
And therefore, I escaped and went up to London,
so we were able to possibly could before they got me in there
with a stone done.
I haven’t got very many.
I see that’s good.
You know, like having done a few of these,
like some people can reach quite readily for the things that I’m…
The very first person we spoke to,
“No, you know, he brought up dishwashers.”
And I was with him.
Sort of on the other side of it, actually.
Because we were talking about rearranging, having to rearrange them,
not being loaded properly.
So there’s always those sorts of things.
Or, you know, like for me,
like not lions are very rarely get a lion,
and sometimes they’re quite like a lion.
So that’s mindful, you know.
But I, you’re undoubtedly several decades younger than me.
I found that the owner…
That’s very kind of you.
The owner that I get, the less sleep I get.
And I mean, I tend to wake up at…
Well, first of all, around about half-possed all the cat wakes up.
Yeah.
And he wants to go out.
So once he starts, that wakes me up.
And I never get back to sleep.
I get to sleep.
So I seem to exist.
I’m trying desperately not to invoke Margaret Fatcher here,
because she famously said she only needed four hours.
Wow, so simple.
And I tend to sort of exist on that too.
Yeah.
I’m about to turn into Margaret Fatcher.
Yes.
Please, please.
I mean, if you do,
come back and do the podcast again, because…
Yeah.
I can confidently bet I will not turn that.
Yeah, please, please.
So, yeah, waking up early is…
But that’s what really happened.
Is it, I don’t think, well, was that count?
I suppose it’s…
Oh, I suppose if you do mostly, you’re waking up at home, probably.
Yeah.
I think our rules around what constitutes work, you know, home and going out.
You know, they’re jumping off points really.
The whole thing for me is everything that gels around the home for me is revolves around the cat.
Right, OK.
I’m a good cat’s cat, boss.
And you see, the cat is the boss.
And I get that from my mother, because she always had cats.
And without a cat, the house is just completely empty.
I know there’s doggy people who will feel the same way about dogs,
but I’m like that about the cat.
So, everything is about…
Is he in yet?
You know, what’s he been up to?
You know, what’s he been up to?
Everything is around the cat.
Is he in a…
Yeah, he’s in a cat.
Is he in it?
Yeah.
Have you fed the cat?
Yeah, you see?
So…
Got it.
Have you got a cat?
Three.
Well, three cats in.
You know them.
Yeah, I think a home is better with a cat.
But I also quite often threaten to get rid of the cat.
Yeah.
Because of the everything.
Well, they’re not like…
One of our cats is a naughty cat.
And I could do without that sometimes.
Well, I’ve got the friendly cat.
So…
I lost my last cat, Cecil, very unexpectedly.
He was a big cat.
All my cats have been…
Yeah, they’ve all been rescue cats.
Right, Cecil’s a great…
Cecil, we rescued from a cat are in Romney and New Romney.
And he died very suddenly and I’m missing terribly.
Yeah.
And we’ve got another rescue cat now called Harvey, a ginger who’s naughty.
All right.
The naughty cat.
So, yeah, this is not the interesting for people.
I don’t think so.
Well, cats are the most watched thing on the internet.
Yeah.
So…
I’d like to interview my cat.
Well, it’s your cat.
Well, it’s your cat.
Yeah.
I wish me.
What did I…
What did you say?
What did you say?
Well, it’s a…
It’s a…
What would you have asked your cat?
I don’t…
I…
First of all, I’d want to know where he goes.
Where do they go?
Well, people go out.
People go out.
People go, they go.
They go out.
They go out.
There are no…
I’m not sure that’s something I’d actually…
Well, I’d probably frighten the life out of me if I saw where they go.
But, you know…
Where do you go?
Where do you go?
Where do you go and why?
And where do you go and why?
So, you’re…
Harvey, the cat.
You know…
That’s a good question.
Well…
But I suppose that isn’t that one of the beauties of cats.
Well, that nice mystery that comes with a cat.
Where do they…
Well, we don’t know them really do.
No, I think they own us.
I think it’s…
I think…
I think privilege to be…
Yeah.
Sometimes they’re sort of lying there looking at you and you think,
“Well, you don’t have to be here.”
Yeah.
I mean, if you didn’t want to be there, you’d just buckle off.
Yeah.
Well, that’s…
I see it, isn’t it?
But they do, and I love them for that.
So…
And that’s one of the things where if you leave the door open for a cat, it’ll go out and
decide to come back.
I think a dog will just go there and open door.
I’m off.
Just for this sheer excitement of there being an open door.
Yeah, that must be quite…
Yeah, I’m not sure.
I’m not sure.
I’m not sure.
I’m not sure.
I’m not sure.
I’m not sure.
I’m not sure.
What about for yourself?
What about the outside world?
Let’s throw it out.
So what are the niggles at…
Right, for you cat, the out.
Can we talk here?
Yeah, let’s begin.
People who can’t use roundabouts.
Okay.
Okay, there are certain people that will…
When the glorious revolution comes, they’re up against the wall.
People who can’t use roundabouts.
People who don’t indicate.
Okay.
Oh, that does my head in.
So, am I supposed to be psychic or something?
Yeah.
So that’s cars dealt with.
People who can’t use roundabouts, people who need…
So, have you noticed?
What?
Oh, God, I wish I’d never started.
When you come up to a roundabout and somebody stops where they’ve got clearly got right and right.
Yeah.
And they just sit there and right.
And then of course, once that person stopped the whole roundabout,
seizes up because nobody knows where to go.
Why?
To do.
Yeah.
Right, boom!
Yeah.
You’ve got a roundabout…
A roundabout where this happens?
No, yeah, yeah.
Well, a particular…
Because I can think of two roundabouts in my regular drive that I know every time two things are going to happen, which one will.
There’s one roundabout that’s got two lanes, which the left hand one is just for going left.
That’s not for going…
Because there is no right hand turn.
It’s not for going straight over.
It’s just for going left.
Yep.
And people pull up there and go straight over from that lane.
Yeah, exactly.
And then all of the…
That one, the H21 and Amberhurst, that’s famous for that.
Oh, yeah, that’s not good.
The one that then goes down onto flim.
Yep.
This is really interesting to that people.
Right.
Yeah, I know that roundabout.
Let’s do trains.
People that sit in a bay of four and they sit by the oil and then cover the rest of the table.
What have you with this stuff?
With that stuff.
And then a whole load of people get on and people are standing up and there’s empty seats.
Yeah.
That drives me nuts.
Yeah.
So that’s trains, don’t you?
For two reasons.
For two reasons.
One, the person should just move over and go sit here.
But also the people who stand up and then don’t say, “I want to sit in there.”
So those people are nine years old.
Yeah, they…
Yeah.
But they shouldn’t be put in that position the first place.
It was being British.
Yeah, I agree.
We don’t sort of like to do that, do we?
Yeah.
We’ll just stand there.
Yeah.
You know, in other countries somebody would grab you by the…
God.
…and wake you out.
Yeah.
You know, they wouldn’t put up with that.
I mean, my family’s…
My father was Australian and so I’ve got family in Australia.
Right.
I can tell you now that that would not happen in Australia.
There’s no way that people would put up with that.
Yeah.
It just wouldn’t happen.
But over here we’re sort of…
We’re two polite.
Polite.
Yeah.
British reserve.
Yeah.
People don’t like people to know we’re annoyed but not actually…
John Taylor said he can sum up the British in one word and that’s sorry.
Yeah.
Because people won’t ask for something, they’ll go…
…like if you want somebody to pass the salt or the salt or something.
Yeah.
Instead of saying could you pass the salt, please?
Yeah.
But, sorry.
Yeah.
Could you…
Yeah.
Sorry.
And so that sums us up really.
Yeah.
I think we’re sorry.
Yeah, that’s fair.
He’s fair.
I can’t…
You know, I’d like to say, “Oh no, I don’t think it…”
But I think…
Yeah.
It’s particular.
But do you think the sort of youth of today are going to be like that?
Or do you think that’s a general?
Well, I wouldn’t have thought that I would ever have turned out like that.
But I think it kind of gets under your skin.
Yeah.
I mean, I’ve been a rebel all my life but I still go…
I still kind of go down that path.
And then I come out of it and think, “Oh God, did I really…”
Yeah, just really…
Well, did I really not say something there?
Yeah.
I mean, it’s a bit like that…
You know the other thing when you’re on a flight and somebody puts the seat back down in front of you.
Yeah.
Or you get on a flight, a daytime flight.
You’re going somewhere.
And the first thing somebody does is put the bloody blinds down.
And then want to go to sleep.
Yes, I cheerfully strangle there.
So I’ve got quite a list coming up now.
Yeah.
I’m going to chuck one in for planes and that’s seat kickers.
Well, they’re probably doing that because you put your seat back in.
Yeah.
And the blind.
Yeah.
So if I’m in Steerage, which of course I am.
I’m very rarely ever.
And I’ve got my tray fat down and I’m trying to eat a sausage in a plastic box.
And then somebody goes, “Womp from puts their seat back.”
And you end up with a sausage on your tie.
You don’t want that.
I hope anyone’s there.
But especially if your shirt is bespoke.
Well, I quite a lot.
You don’t want sauce all over it.
No, no, you don’t.
No, it’s, you know, there are nice bespoke shirts should be respected and sauce less.
I’m actually…
Well, look, the next time this happens and I happen to be wearing a bespoke shirt,
I’m sure you’ll stand up and say, “Excuse me, show them my bespoke.”
Well, yeah.
And I want to, you know, it’s the sort of equivalent of getting them stood up against the wall.
Yeah.
When I show them the bespokeness.
The bespokeness.
So you could just hand them one of…
Or take their details and say, “I wish it would be passing these onto my tailor who would be giving you a dressing down.”
The next opportunity.
Yes, quite right too.
And you’re going the chap, at least of unacceptable people.
Yeah, yeah, well that’s true.
So, yeah, you were a reader of the chap?
Yes, I am actually.
Yeah, it’s a good magazine chap.
Yeah, there’s some good articles in there.
Yeah.
So, yeah, so I do…
In fact, actually, I was going to drench myself in Flannier before I came in and said,
“See, if you detected the odour.”
All right.
Flannier ladies and gentlemen is an odour toilet.
For gentlemen.
Yeah.
It’s actually surprisingly perfect, actually.
If I’m honest, it’s very flowery and rather kemp.
And so I thought, “I’ll drench myself in that.”
But actually, I didn’t in the end.
Oh, the other thing that I like to drench myself in is tobacco.
Right.
Which used to be sold, of course, floodmursacy by the late Peter Wingard.
Yeah, to taste and kink.
Yes.
Have you not said…
I’ve heard of it.
I haven’t thought about tobacco.
It’s a glorious…
I come out of the show and I drench myself in tobacco.
I love that.
I am.
A rumour.
Yeah.
It’s the sort of acceptable 70s aroma.
Yeah.
Whereas Brute sort of fell out of fashion.
Brute did an old spice.
That was the other one.
That was my very first aftershave as old spice.
And I liked it.
Mainly for that little stopper.
Do you remember that?
You didn’t know what buttons are.
Yeah, we could do.
The old spice.
A little spice.
Yeah.
Made a really satisfying squeak as you sort of put it back in.
Do you know what?
When I was at school, over the road.
I just over the road.
We used to…
You used to be able to get Brute in little tiny bottles.
Yeah.
Or about four or five inches full.
Just the two ones of the…
The richer ones of the…
Of the…
Of the…
Of the…
Sort of neck on there.
Yeah, long neck in a green bottle.
And it was…
It came in a hard plastic case.
And it was probably horrifically expensive, like 50p or something.
Yeah.
I mean, you could have bought a single with what that cost.
Yeah.
And this was the thing.
Yeah.
Reaking of when you went to local discos.
When you went to the dank in Tumbrich.
Or Tumbrich in 20 or…
Teeness renty.
Yeah.
So you’d be there in your tonic scribes.
Nice.
And your best outfit.
Reaking of Brute.
Brute.
Yeah.
What you’d bought.
I think it might have been 99p.
That’s actually…
It was pretty…
It was a lot of money.
Pretty much.
And who was your…
Brute…
Advert.
Who was the star of the Brute Advert here, remember?
In those days, I don’t ever remember it having a face off.
I think where they went pear short was when Henry Cooper started to do it.
And then…
Kevin Keegan.
And Keegan.
Yeah, but…
Keegan Keegan.
Because it was…
Splash it all over.
Yeah.
That was Henry Cooper.
It kind of ruined the brats.
It’s a great place.
I wish people would see your face there.
That was brilliant.
Ah!
Yeah.
And then there was…
Do you remember high karate?
Yeah.
Really?
Yeah, really?
Yeah, really?
Yeah, well, we’re…
I’m…
For some people, high karate will come drop…
Valorine…
Valorine?
Valorine?
Yeah.
And now I know that.
But I know that.
Yes, I do.
I’ve done…
Oh, gosh.
Val was doing a…
A tour.
I…
I know Val.
Right.
Reasonably well.
And she…
Well, she was doing a tour on cruise ships.
She was doing a tour.
She was doing a tour on cruise ships.
And she was going to be doing some acting classes for the…
For the…
For the people on this round the world cruise or something.
And then she did an evening with Valorine.
And when she put her…
Yeah.
That time with…
On the bomb movies and stuff.
Yeah.
So, tobacco.
Yeah, see that’s…
You know you can still buy it.
You can buy it.
You can buy it.
If you go online, you can buy this great, huge 300…
Oh, fat.
300 litre of…
Vat of tobacco.
Vat of tobacco.
From about 20 quit.
But, literally, if you are drowning yourself into back…
I imagine, you know, wholesale is the way to go.
Well, I think we come full circle there because…
Yeah.
If you drown yourself into back and walk down the street,
you look round, you’ll find about 50 cats for all of you.
So…
But it is a very evocative smell.
And I…
It’s one I still like.
But we got on to this because of the chat, didn’t we?
So, I did not chat.
I do not know what you’re talking about.
And, um, which is one of their…
Yeah, chosen.
All right.
…fragures which I do like.
Yeah, yeah.
Yes.
And, um, I’m trying to remember the name of the other one.
The other one, though.
I can’t remember the name of the other one, but they’re both nice.
From a sort of, going out point of view, then, again,
trains roundabouts.
Train roundabouts.
That’s all good.
I mean, that’s pretty good.
Train’s a fairly universal…
There’s always something irritating, I think, about a train.
That’s hard.
There is, if you travel on the high-stake slide.
Yeah.
And, um, occasionally, if I’m…
If I’m flush, I’m not travel from Rye up to Ashford,
and then up to London on the high speed.
Rye, I would say.
Which is quicker.
It depends which bit of London you’re visiting.
But it costs so much.
Yeah.
And, um, incredibly.
And they’ve hacked about with the service.
And now there’s very few trains that run on that line.
And, um, who wants to be stuck in the waiting room,
Ashford International for two hours of the night?
No, no.
No, no.
No, fortunately.
So, um, I’ve got quite a fondness for a hasty slide, actually.
Yeah.
Because it kinda goes through all the areas I used to go through.
Rye, I can’t.
And I was a kid, and we used to go down to hastings and…
And be louts.
Yeah.
On the beach.
Yeah.
It’s not bad beach to be loud to you, or not.
Well, we never went to Brighton.
We never really liked to Brighton.
But you could get to Brighton by train.
Yeah.
At the time of the day I was back in those days.
Yeah, you can’t.
So easily now.
Yeah, you have to…
I think you go.
I think you go via Wales.
Yeah, yeah.
And how do you do somewhere?
Yeah.
But Brighton was always a Londoner’s result.
Right, okay.
Hastings was where…
Hastings, Eastbourne.
Yeah.
And that was sort of our hatch.
Yeah, that’s fair.
So…
That’s fair.
I like Hastings.
Hastings is earthy.
Yeah.
Of course, fond memories of being in Hastings.
Some knots are fond, actually.
But…
My friend David Austin, he had the best haircut ever in the world.
Official.
Yes, Official.
He used to get his haircut at this place in Tumbridge, which did feathered.
No, no.
And he was kind of blonde and he had feathered…
He was feathered hairdo, which was kind of…
You know when you see someone with a head…
Well, you’ve got your…
Yes.
Where it went.
Where it went.
Well, when you look at someone with a hairdo and you look at their hair and you think,
“God, I wish I could get in there and do it like that.”
Well, David Austin’s was like that.
Oh, was it?
And I went and tried to get one and came back looking like a failed Apache.
And in fact, if I’m a story on this, if I can, don’t…
Please, do.
Long hair was very frowned upon at school.
All right.
So, in my secondary school, over the road.
Over the road.
I had this failed Apache long hair and the headmaster was always trying to get me to have it cut.
Right.
And I’d been chastised so many times for not getting it cut.
He used to make me go and pick a litter up outside after school because I absolutely refused to get my hair cut.
And my mother, in the end, was brought into this.
And I said to my mom, he has me out there picking litter up after school because I won’t get my hair cut.
My mom, who was funky, she was great.
She said, “Well, I’m not having that.”
So she went up there and complained and had a ding dong with her headmaster.
X about them picking on me for having long hair.
But I maintained to this day that if I had had a successful feather,
instead of getting complaints and being made to pick up litter, which David Austin never was,
cursed you, David.
I’d have had a much easier time.
Because feathered hair was funky.
Failed Apache.
Not so much.
I’d just look at people and think, “I wish I could have…”
I don’t think it’s a scientist invented something which means we can get our hair back.
I think it’s a tablet or something you smear on yourself.
You used to be coffee shampoo.
Coffee, coffee.
Do you shower in it or drink it?
I don’t know.
But maybe both.
But if we could have our hair back, would you?
Well, that’s a really good question, actually.
Oh, so I haven’t considered the poss…
Because I wouldn’t wear a wig or anything.
So I hadn’t really…
You wouldn’t do it out?
No, I don’t think it would.
So we don’t have that Elton John wears a wig?
Can you just point that out?
No, not any more.
But would I think of somebody who clearly has got all these own hair?
He might have clif.
Because I’m…
I guess there’s so many good examples now.
Would I?
I think I would kind of…
Are you too old?
No.
On balance, I probably wouldn’t.
Now it’s gone.
Now I’m frozen stiff years old.
I think it would look kindly ridiculous.
Yeah, yeah.
I know.
But some people carry off, kind of, nicely, don’t they?
Yeah, one of my friends showed me a picture of Martin Lewis, the actor.
Yeah.
He, I think, is around about 75, 76, something.
Yeah, could be.
Like 70s now.
And he looked absolutely amazing.
Right.
Sort of salt and pepper, but all his hair and what I’ve been there.
But if I could look like that, maybe I’d consider it.
Eight piece Baker Boy, I would say.
Yeah, yeah.
I’d say.
Yeah, that’s good.
He does it.
You do.
I’d really carry it off.
I look like my granddad now.
My granddad always.
Well, in fact, I’ve got my grandad’s.
Right.
And does it fit?
Yeah.
Does it?
I’m…
Because I say you take after your mother’s father, don’t you?
Right.
And he was a slapper, like me.
Right.
I had not like my paternal family who all kept there here.
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
My brothers in Australia have got here.
Right.
So, what’s that all about?
Oh, yeah.
So, yeah.
Yeah, I like mine.
Is this a Baker Boy?
I would say that’s a Baker Boy, yeah.
One, two, three, four, five, six, seven.
Yeah, he is.
It’s an eight piece Baker Boy.
Let’s see.
It’s not just taking it.
I wouldn’t ever wear it that way, round.
No.
Because then you look like a book.
Do you know what Eddie is I’d use to say, don’t use it?
There’s a very tight curve between call hip and groovy.
Call it been groovy.
Yeah.
You’re looking like a dickhead.
And you have to go round only one way from call hip and groovy to looking.
If you try and back into call hip and groovy from looking like a dickhead, it doesn’t work.
So, doing like a dickhead, doing it the proper way round.
Yeah, it’s just, I probably only Samuel L. Jackson can pull off that wearing it back to front and still look.
But then Samuel L. Jackson is, it doesn’t get much call hip and groovy.
Well, it doesn’t, does it?
It doesn’t.
Right.
Oh, I’m moving.
Oh, I’d already, I’d already…
Is this something I said?
No, no.
So Malcolm Witt, Lauren Brett.
No, yeah.
You might have to qualify that statement with that.
Yeah.
That was pre-recorded in the, just before we started this, we were yacking away talking about stuff.
I happen to mention that Muriel, Muriel Gray and I doing an interview with Malcolm McClaren.
I think it was for, I think it might have been double dutch.
Oh.
He was playing my skipping, skipping thing.
And Muriel sat one side of him and he was sat in the middle and we were in a tight three shot and very close together.
And he had the most appalling dog food breath.
And I remember, I’ve never wanted an interview to be over as quickly as that.
Afterwards, I said, I said, Muriel, if I never see Malcolm McClaren again, it could be too soon.
Because all I could think of was pedigree chum.
Oh, that’s when he passed it on his breath smell.
Did it, so was it sort of, do you think it was cigarettes and booze and coffee?
No, no, what it was, bloody horrible.
Yeah, anyway.
That’s not dwell on that.
No, because that’s twice now you have to think about that in the split of about an hour.
It was probably something you could replace.
But how do you make Malcolm before in your early days?
We sort of vaguely knew him from the King’s World days from the shop.
My mate used to go and hang a bear.
And be Yobbs back in the day.
Was he sort of a nice chap to me?
Because he was actually…
He was alright with us.
Yeah, fine.
It was just the dog food breath.
Dog food breath.
Probably sounds like he wasn’t so much fun if he was your manager.
I wouldn’t have thought so.
No.
So look, I now have the bowl of hat we referred to earlier.
Now it’s been pointed out this is a slightly strange thing because we have a section in the podcast called
“Off the Cuff” we thought being that it was called “Get Shirty”
that being having the “Off the Cuff” section where we get somebody to pick a random subject for then to sort of then to…
Oh yeah, this is very annoying about this subject.
So we thought we’d call it “Off the Cuff” as these things are.
Sounds good to me.
But we put all the little things for you to pick out of in a bowl of hat,
which then doesn’t work with the “Off the Cuff” as Adam Bucks and Carly pointed out.
He was quite right.
He suggested which we will do attaching some subjects to the “Cuff of a Shirt”
and then it really is “Off the Cuff” as we get it.
Rather than “Off the Cuff” from a bowl of hat, but you still get the bowl of hats, sir.
Well, I quite like that because Lauren Hardy and my hero is…
So pick something from the hat.
What do I have to do when I…
See, there will be a subject on there and then you have to think if there’s something which gets you sure to eat about the thing that comes…
Oh my god, this is so difficult.
What if it’s not?
Okay, I’m just…
It might be so if you’ve already talked about.
Which case you’ve got picket bags.
Birthdays.
Ah, okay.
So is there something?
Yeah, I’m not a big fan of parties.
Right, okay.
I’m not a birthday parties.
I’m well known amongst my friends who now know never to bother inviting me to a party.
Because I love…
I can’t bear them.
So a party for you or any party?
Oh, any party.
I’m not a party person at all.
So birthday parties…
My best friend, Jackie, when I was at school, she came to my birthday party once and I remember this is when I was very in it.
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
I just want to point this out.
I don’t come out of this story very well.
Right.
She bought a present which I didn’t like.
And I said to her, is that all?
Oh my God.
Now it says something, I’m 65 years old.
All right.
That story has never left me.
Really?
To this day it faunts me.
Is it this one?
Birthdays, that’s what I dislike.
I don’t know.
So you’re not a party?
No, birthdays can do well.
What about a surprise party then?
Is that your idea about that?
My worst.
Nightmare.
Right, okay.
No one will ever…
Would you just ever do that to me?
Time round, straight back out.
Well, I’d probably be…
Dis-demanded it.
But I hate it, right?
Okay.
So I don’t do parties, I don’t do weddings, I don’t do…
I don’t do anything where there is a gathering of people and a social aspect to it.
I just hate it.
All right.
Yeah.
Can you pinpoint why?
Is it small talk?
Because back to telling Jackie Valier is that all at my birthday.
Yeah.
And she’s one of my besties too.
She still is.
All right.
We’re still good friends.
I’ll presume you have…
Have you talked about it since?
No.
I’ve kept that all off from back now.
Are you out of the bag now?
I haven’t…
Well, you have, but are you sure she even remembers?
She won’t even remember.
Jackie’s tough at one of the toughest people I know.
So you could be carrying something for the year?
Like it would be.
But you didn’t need to.
Yeah.
It’s possible.
But even so.
I’m not…
I’m surprisingly…
I’m subtle, but I’ll…
I’m happy to continue to carry it.
I’m surprisingly uns sociable.
I’m not…
No, I’m sociable as a person.
Yeah, you’re not…
I don’t…
Oh, no.
I do like dinner parties.
Right.
At yours or going to other people?
No, not Mike, because I don’t want to do the washing up.
No, I don’t want to do the dishwasher.
Okay.
So as we’ve already said.
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
So dinner parties…
No, out.
Yes.
Out.
Out.
Out.
Out.
And a nice restaurant somewhere.
Right, oh my.
Somewhere fabulous, like…
Right.
…lush appell, or…
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
Or even…
I like the IPC.
I know a lot of people don’t, but I do.
Yeah.
So I’ve got quite expensive tastes.
Wow.
And why not?
And…
And why not?
Life’s for the living, generally.
Yeah.
I think it comes from having my youngest brother,
Bunk off, and going to Pat’s calf.
And he has to be down the road.
I was a paulder when I found out my brother, Bunked Off School.
School, yeah.
And I never did.
I was a good boy.
All right, well done.
Yeah.
I’m trying to think what would have been Pat’s calf,
or about that would have been.
It was…
It was just down the road.
It was just down the road.
We left it.
We left it.
We’ll have to look into it.
I wonder if that’s what bliss turned into cafe bliss.
Was it quite long, long, thin?
I’ll never win in there.
So…
No, you never…
I never win in there.
My brother did.
Oh, okay.
My little brother.
A Bunked Off School.
He was naughty.
He was naughty.
He was a good boy.
I thought you mentioned that.
Yes.
Apart from Toby and Jackie, but I didn’t like it.
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
Thank you for…
Great.
Thank you, man.
And now, to lose several nights’ sleep.
Well, we see.
Yeah.
Yeah.
See, that’s what I’m like.
I tend to revisit things, things I’ve said, or, you know.
And that was one of the concerns about doing a podcast that I’d say something,
and then have to replay it for the rest of my life.
Well, I think I’ve…
Over and over.
I hope that this one hasn’t been too traumatic for years.
It’s been very…
I’ve been…
I’ve been…
I’ve been…
And I’ve said…
Oh, no, you see, I wouldn’t worry about what…
I said…
I guess it.
Yeah, but…
I didn’t…
I did a number of radio interviews on the BBC when my book came out, and one of them
was a local radio station in…
the Essex somewhere, somewhere out that way there.
And before we went on there, for some reason, the interviewer came on and said to me,
“Promise me, you won’t…
Please, please, promise me you won’t swear.”
And…
I thought…
Well, I’m from Cambridge.
Well, I’m…
I have a lot of Cambridge.
I don’t do that.
I do swear.
I think she thought I was going to go all the word and channel four.
All right, I agree.
Okay.
But it doesn’t come naturally.
So, swear words roll off the tongue like a brick to me.
All right, okay.
I’m still quite nervous of saying fart by more nickers.
Oh, right.
But they’re all the best ones.
Fart…
Yeah, well…
I’ve never ever said fart by more nickers on the BBC.
Ever.
As you were on the BBC for a while on the radio, aren’t you?
I did.
Oh, God, I did, don’t…
I did midweek.
Midweek?
My interview told the party.
But…
The first time I was interviewed as a guest…
Right.
…and the producer, Michael Peter Estil, found me up and said,
“We really like to be on there.
Would you like to come on and interview someone on there?”
All right.
…and I did…
Can you believe I did radio for midweek?
We did.
We did Libby Purvis and Henry Kelly.
And…
Of going for gold fame, I think.
Yeah.
So, I interviewed, I’ve got tob-cartee on it.
And was this…
Was it EastEnders?
Time range?
Was it Granger?
Tucker.
Yeah.
He was Tucker…
Yeah, Tucker Jenkins.
I’m not sure if this was…
…if…no, he probably wasn’t in EastEnders at the time.
Yeah.
But…
Because he was the second mark, anyway, wasn’t he?
Yeah.
And then I did that, and now it was all right, but…
But I didn’t want to do it anymore.
Right.
Libby and Henry didn’t like this…
…trapy little cop shot turning up on their show.
I was probably more…
…pirate radio than radio, huh?
So, I didn’t want to do that again.
So, that was me, that was my choice.
No, I don’t want to do this.
No.
And as it’s been sort of the stage more…
…since those days…
Well, I can, yeah.
It has.
And that’s where I tend to do stuff now.
I mean, I kind of pick and choose a bit, but…
…all right.
…probably more than I should do.
Yeah.
But, yeah.
That’s where my heart plays.
Yeah, yeah.
…on the scale of Darling.
And what’s next for you?
Oh, God, do you know what?
I hate it when people ask me that.
It’s so…
Right, no, that…
No, it’s just an eight.
That’s right, we can cut with a cut.
Actually, but…
No, don’t cut it.
You need to cut it out.
It will always say…
…the two questions I hate are…
…what have you done recently?
Yeah.
…and what do you want to do next?
Yeah.
So, I’m…
…something fabulous…
Yeah.
…that doesn’t involve pantomime.
All right.
…um…
…I ever stewed pantomime.
All right.
Which is odd, because I started…
…my whole love of theatre started with pantomime.
All right.
…in time with the opera house.
Well, that used to be a theatre.
Oh!
Before in the camera, where did I spend it?
Yes, I was dragged up.
But you know in a pantomime when they drag…
…the kids up on the stage?
Yeah, yeah.
…and they filter them out and they always…
…give out the goodie bag, the sweeties…
…and then they reach the last two…
…and they’ve got no bags of sweets left.
This is…
…it was quite crawlatch.
I don’t know if they do that now.
There’ll probably be suede if they try that.
Yeah.
…and they leave the two…
…well, I was there…
…upon stage with Alan Gale…
…who was playing miffins…
…in the opera house.
It would have been about 1962, 1963…
…something that was about five, I think.
And I was all over the place.
I wasn’t to pay much attention to Alan.
Alan Gale is…
…Peter Duncan’s dad.
His mum and dad did the pantomimes in Tom Beach…
…was Peter Duncan off of Blue Peter.
Yes, of an age.
…of Flash Gordon.
…of Flash Gordon.
…of Flash Gordon, yes.
…and others.
Yeah, yeah.
And I get on to this.
But anyway, I was on stage.
You’re lucky.
I was all over the place.
I was looking at all this stuff behind the stage and the lights…
…and everything else.
And he tried to pay me off with this girl…
…saying, “I don’t want her to be my girlfriend.”
Right.
Which I didn’t.
And if you did that these days…
…you’d instruct your parents to sue them for harassment.
That’s harassment, that is.
That is.
But he was a lovely man.
And that’s when my great-grandfather…
…but I don’t want to do pantomime now.
No.
Yeah.
I’m not a pantomime-y type of…
…I’ve only ever been in drag once.
And that was on the tube.
I was it.
Yeah, we did it.
We did it a new year’s eve…
I think it was a new year’s eve.
It might have been in Christmas or New Year’s Eve show.
Maybe it was Christmas.
And we all got up in fancy dress.
Right.
And for some reason I decided to do it as Murray Wilson.
All right.
What was I thinking?
Oh my god.
So there are pictures going around of me in…
I sure find.
…dressed as Murray Wilson.
And Jules.
Jules, pretty saw me.
I’ve never forgotten Jules’ face when I’ve minced on.
All right.
And we did this thing with the crowd as they were coming in.
Me as Murray Wilson.
Jules wasn’t wearing any fancy dress at all.
And…
…dipped out.
Yeah.
So we sort of did this awkward bit with me in drag.
What have you there?
And I thought, no, that is the one of only time.
And never again.
No.
So I won’t do pantalagher.
I won’t do.
Dame.
No.
And definitely no drag.
I’m still in Butch.
Yeah.
Well, look.
And on that declaration of Butch near this week, we’ll wrap it up.
I’ll say, thank you very much for taking the time to…
…to talk to us and to me.
I know.
I’ve loved it.
It’s been great.
And I’ll look forward to talking to you again.
Thank you.
Yes.
That’s all right.
Thank you very much.
Thank you.
So apparently there’s bad breath.
And then there’s Malcolm McClaren bad breath.
Who knew?
So a big thank you to Gary for being our guest.
It was great to hear about a local lad making it to the bright lights of London.
You can find out more about Gary at his website.
We’ve put a link in the notes with the podcast.
There are some great pictures there, including the Mary Wilson drag outfit.
We’ve also put a link to the Weather Girls performance and interview that Gary spoke about.
And a link to his graveyard rambles on YouTube, which were worth a visit.
And finally, a little house keeping from the Adam Bucks in episode,
where I said you can’t buy the Tamarajoyles water from the Chalibites Spring down there on the pantals in bottles.
Apparently you can, since being told, amazing stuff.
So that just leaves me to say thank you again to Gary James for being a great guest.
To Sam for keeping us on track.
To Stuart Wilson for the recording, editing and producing of the podcast.
And to Dad Hazard for all the wonderful music you hear on the podcast.
Links to his channels are also included in the description.
So until next time, try not to get too shirty.
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